Monday, June 17, 2013

Argentinian Orbats and figure conversions.

I am continuing to slowly build up my forces for running some Falklands war scenarios. I am using as a starting point the GDW Harpoon/Combined Arms supplement "South Atlantic War" as a basis for my Argentinean units. I am also using information and research that has been gathered by others (such as Paul over at Plastic Warrior -see the discussion in the comments), and that I have found myself.


Esci SA-7 figure from the Spetsnaz set, with head replacement from the  Esci WW2 US Infantry set.


The SA-7 team painted and based, ready for Goose Green.

Another view of the SA-7 stand.  lots more conversions to go!
For the battle of Goose Green, I am rather spoiled for choice as GDW not only included information on the battle in SAW, but also published in as a scenario in the old Command Posts (CP 5 I believe), which was then included in "The Command Post Compendium". Both the SAW and the CP scenarios give slightly different forces, so I am going to model enough elements to use both ToEs, so I can then tinker with the force used in order to either achieve greater play balance, or if I find new information - a more historical force.


Command Post Compendium Argentine Orbat Goose Green

Army Units

12th Infantry Regiment, Trained ML: 7
Headquarters, with:
  1 Command stand
  1 Infantry stand
Headquarters Company, with:
  1 Command stand
  2 Support stands
  1 Engineer stand
Combat Support Company, with:
  1 Command stand
  1 Recon Infantry stand
  1 HMG stand
  1 81mm Mortar stand (ds)
  1 105mm RCL
  1 Gun Crew stand (ds)
Company A, with:
  1 Command stand
  3 Infantry stands
Attached Units: 
  Battery A, 4th Airborne Artillery Regt., Regular, ML 8, with:
         1 Command stand
         1 Jeep
         1 M107 105mm howitzer
         1 Gun Crew stand (ds)
         1 Support stand
         2 tons ammo
         1 Medium truck  
  Battery B, 601st ADA Group, Regular, ML 8, with:
         1 Command stand
         1 SA-7 team
         1 Twin 35mm ADA gun
         1 Gun Crew stand
  Elements, Company C, 8th Infantry Regt., Regular, ML 8, with:
         1 Self Ordering Infantry stand

105mm RCL and 107mm Mortar. The Mortar will be used by 5 BIM.

Esci Spetsnaz figure cut down, and head replaced by one from Matchbox US Infantry figure.

If this test conversion goes well I will do more.


Reinforcements:

Company B, 12th Infantry Regt., Trained ML 7, with:
       1 Command stand
       3 Infantry stands
Company C, 12th Infantry Regt., Trained ML 7, with:
       1 Command stand
       3 Infantry stands
Company C, 25th Infantry Regt., Regular ML 8, with:
       1 Command stand
       3 Infantry stands  

Airfix British Paratrooper. Stock figure is on right. Left figure has had head replaced with Esci/Italeri  US Vietnam war figure., and barrel extended with plastic card.

Another Airfix British Paratrooper in the process of conversion.


Air Force Units

Headquarters, Regular, ML 8 with:
  1 Command stand
  Air Defense Units, Regular ML 8, with:
      1 Command stand
      2 Infantry stands
      1 20mm Rh 202 ADA gun
      1 Gun Crew stand
  3rd Attack Squadron Ground Crews, Green, ML 6, with:
      10 Ground Crew stands


Now this ToE has a few issues, the most obvious being that 3rd Attack squadron seems to have 300-500 ground crew! The SAW ToE reduces that down to one Command stand and three infantry stands, but also drops the morale to 4.  I am going to have to do a bit of research in order to produce a ToE that I am happy with!

HK knock off of Airfix US Marine. I plan to use this figure as part of 5 BIM, as they used M20 Bazookas.

A better view of the Airfix British Paratrooper figure. The head has been replace with  one from a HK knock off US Marine, and coated with liquid Green Stuff. This figure will also be used as part of 5 BIM.
So far I have also found suitable figure in the Imex Korean War US Infantry, and will no doubt find other suitable US figures to convert. Hopefully I will be able to build up enough figures in order to field a useful range of Army, Marine, and Airforce units.

18 comments:

  1. Good conversions !!
    I hope that I will be able to do some in the future ...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I look forward to seeing yours when you do them Sam!

      Delete
    2. I'm a little liar!
      I've done some basic ones...
      but I don't use putty and I must try that, because I need it for my "Lost New World" !

      Delete
  2. It is always intriguing, seeing an army come together - the troops, the equipments, the organisation and the whole kit and caboodle. The end result will be interesting for sure.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The process of building up an army is one of the things I enjoy about the hobby - as is watching others build up their forces.

      Delete
  3. Following this one with interest mate, anything useful I come up with will come to you via Paul :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Al! I appreciate it - thanks for the info so far!

      Delete
  4. Nice work Brian. The SA-7 idea is spot on. Matchbox AML-90 Panards in the background?

    I am doing the same with the Bazooka, but mine is a Hasegawa hard plastic clone. I need to grab some of those MARS RCL's!

    Keep us updated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Paul - the SA-7 conversion has been brewing for some time. The Matchbox armoured car in the background is very similar to the British Fox, bar the turret and the shape of the rear. it is probably a little too large too. The not"FoX' with make an appearance in Harad. As for the Panards, I am exploring a few possibilities.

      Delete
  5. cool stuff! they look really nice. the Argentine exchange student in my class just found out I was English... anyway its not caused any problems but yes the war was mentioned. fortunately unlike some I do not approve of this war very much so no problems there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Gowan - glad that it was awkward with the exchange student. As to your comment "fortunately unlike some I do not approve of this war very much" - not too sure as to your meaning there. Do you mean that you don't approve of war in general as a means of solving disputes between parties?, or of Britain liberating 1800 people who didn't wish to be incorporated by force into Argentina? (An Argentina that was ruled at the time by a military junta that had been committing massive human rights violations against its own people). A peoples right to self determination is a very important one, one that is enshrined in the founding articles of the United Nations. Another point to consider is that the defeat of Argentina in the Falklands led to the weakening of the then ruling junta and helped pave the way towards Argentina gaining a democratic government.

      Delete
    2. Here here!

      Well put Brian. I myself often wonder about unelected Generals bankrupting the country, placing 50% of the people out of work, letting inflation rack up to the highest in the world, throwing political prisoners out of aircraft over the South Atlantic and disappearing the opponents of their rule.

      I do note that while this conflict is not "approve"d , a civil war seems to be http://gowansoronegro.blogspot.co.nz/

      Just as I matter of principal I do not game Civil War settings, especially after 25 years in uniform having to deal with some mates who have had to either clean them up or stand by and just report the atrocities being committed in them. Sometimes rose tinted glasses just do not apply.

      I received a similar comment the other day and it took great will power from snapping back.

      Well put Brian.

      Delete
    3. Thanks for your kind words Paul, I had think awhile before I made a response to Gowan's comment.

      I don't want my comments to be seen as an attack on Gowan, but I feel that the remark had to be addressed.

      There are conflicts and scenarios that I won't game, and I think that is true of most gamers. Most of the moderns games I play are either set in fictitious countries, or have had fictitious elements and factions introduced into them - such as Nod (especially in the Balkans games I do), in order to make them some what more tasteful.

      Civil wars are probably the worst type of war in terms of the terrible things that happen to the civilian population, and I can fully appreciate your reasons not wanting to game them.


      Delete
    4. Again well put Brian. I am a pretty easy going guy myself with 3 kids ranging from 25 to 10 so I too have to be careful not to put them off having opinions or views...Hence me biting my tongue.

      The last thing I would hope to achieve is a personnel attack, I would rather see it as more of a editorial comment.

      Time will tell.

      Delete
    5. May I explain my reasons for feeling the way I feel.

      1st I am aware of the Junta and its atrocities and I also agree that the war did help bring down the junta! something I am not exactly going to tell my exchange student friend.

      2nd yes the British were liberating/saving those people who may have suffered at the hands of the junta.

      BUT!

      the Argentines were clearly building up for an invasion and something could have been done to prevent this, such as moving a force down there before an invasion took place.

      also the invasion was made out of desperation on the junta's part they were already is trouble and the war was an attempt to unite the nation. the same is also occasionally said of Thatcher yet that depends on your point of view (I am not sure). a large number of the soldiers they used were conscripts, put up against a well trained force they could never match.

      A political solution could have been found before the invasion, or at least something that would have prevented the Argentines from trying.

      As for Oronegro.

      yes I know a civil war is the worst kind, its not something I would wish on anyone or any nation! Oronegro is a nation in civil war true, yet that does not mean I like civil wars, from the start I have endeavoured to make it hard for people to pick the "right side", the rebels are people fighting for their freedom and against corruption, the government are fighting against the threat of totalitarianism and occupation. Neither side is supposed to always be good, neither side is always fighting for the reasons stated above. Yet I have found that there is an unfortunate bias in favour of the government that is why for some time now I have been trying to move away from just a simple civil war and to try and increase the roll of outsiders.
      I came away from Argentina with a profound interest in the Latin world, not the Falklands conflict. What I did come away with was a feeling of sadness, and empathy for the Argentine people affected by this conflict, who were forced by the junta into a doomed enterprise, surely Britain could have acted differently for the sake of these people.

      Perhaps if I had not gone I would have a completely different opinion on the conflict. But staring at the banners in the Plaza de Mayo in Buenos Aires had a profound impact on me.

      Delete
    6. Gowan,
      I have a few points of my own to make.
      To start with, I appreciate you reading and commenting on my blog - and hope that you will continue to do so. Do remember that the written word is an imperfect medium at best, and others may well receive a different message that the one you wish to send.

      I don't want to enter into a protracted debate about the Falklands War, rather I want to game it because it allows for some interesting challenges on the tabletop. The history of the various territorial disputes between Argentina and her neighbours is a long and complex tale that I don't wish to debate on my blog. Suffice to say that your comments about 'moving a force down there before an invasion took place" and "the Argentines were clearly building up for an invasion" strongly suggests that you might wish to do further research on the conflict before making comments that invite further debate.

      May I suggest Max Hastings & Simon Jenkins "The Battle for the Falklands" - particularly the first few chapters - that will outline many of the flaws in your argument. I am happy to suggest other works as well. The British victory in the Falklands was by no means a forgone conclusion and could have had quite a different ending.

      I am glad that your trip to Argentina has spurred such a strong interest in Latin America. Travel is meant to broaden the mind, but empathy for one group shouldn't cancel out the empathy for other groups. I believe that both the Falkland Islanders and the Argentine public were victims of the ruling junta, however don't forget that the invasion of the Falklands was a very popular move at the time - despite it being an attempt to use force to remove the right to self determination from 1800 odd people. This is something that cannot, and must not be ignored. Loving the people and culture of Argentina should not make you blind to the rank injustice of removing the right of self determination from a people, nor from the fact that both sides lost loved ones due to the actions and decisions of the junta in invading the Falklnds.

      Enjoy your Oronegro campaign! You have worked hard to produce an engaging background for both your models and your gaming. Not everyone will like that style of background, (many for both personal and professional reasons), but I can assure you that your Oronegro campaign is currently well within the bounds of tasteful gaming. When however yo make comments about the gaming choices of others, do not be surprised when they make comments about your choice of games.

      Delete
    7. I see you point. I apologise if I may have seemed to condemn your anyone else's choices for gaming that was not my intention.

      as you said yourself writing is an imperfect medium. May I also state that although I do not like aspects of the war itself I have no problems with the gaming of it. I'll try and be more careful with what I say in the future.

      so I apologise for not thinking my original comment through (perhaps my Ritalin had worn off) and I hope that this subject brings you some great games.

      Delete
    8. No worries Gowan. I look forward to seeing more stuff from Oronegro!

      Delete